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For Better of for Worse

From News: The CBO Might Be Wrong, But Orszag Might Not Be Right

For Better of for Worse

 

SDU Member Since: Jun 3rd, 2009 - Debate started 4 months ago

According to Health Care for America Now!"
"There is a short answer to the question of what health reform will do for you: Better coverage, lower costs, and the security of knowing you're not at the mercy of private insurance anymore. This is what health care reform will do for you.

The cost of doing nothing - the conservative plan for health care - is staggering: The average family will pay $10,000 more in premiums by 2019 if nothing is done. We can not afford the conservative health care plan. We must reform health care now, for you and me and our families."

Considering this and the current proof that health care reform is unlikely to increase taxes, what's wrong with making health care available to more and to everyone for less?

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Jeremy86 (Democratic) - 4 months ago

I think there are definitely legitimate concerns to have. There are definitely multiple - and completely legitimate - views about how health care reform would effect our economy, positively and negatively, and differing views about how best to make our health care system work as well.

However, some of the arguments used against health care reform are just absurd. Secret plots to kill old people? Our health care is fine so don't touch it (memo: it isn't, and we're 50th in world life expectancy)? No, those aren't realistic arguments and will only aide the cause of the current health care reformers.

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way2convey (Independent) - 4 months ago

Question: Specifically what in this plan guarentees I will have better coverage? I have very good insurance now. Also, my plan is not the cheapest plan out there or the most expensive so how can Health Care for America Now claim I will have better coverage, at lower cost when the final bill hasn't even been written yet!? And as far as costs go, the white house CBO disagrees that this plan will lower any costs and indicated it will actually cost more!

Your left leaning talking point that the conservatives have no plan is false. They have voiced many good ideas for reform which are simple ignored by the media and the democrats because they oppose the government take over of 1/6 of our economy, the health care system.

I am all for reforms that will root out Medicare and Medicaid fraud (the democrats have opposed all legislation to do that), and increasing consumer choice and bolstering competition by making health insurance portable across states (also opposed by democrats). Most all economists and health care professional agree these are positive steps toward lowering costs and improving care and they don’t require trillions of tax payer dollars or creating a vast government bureaucracy that will be wrought will fraud, ration care and severally limit the choices doctors have in prescribing care.

PS: You should really take the time to read the house bill before jumping on the band wagon. It’s a real eye opener.

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Patriot Watch (Independent) - 4 months ago

Typical Liberal. So what is the conservative plan? I know you havent a clue because you are a liberal robot.

What you are encouraging is a government take over of health care. Is that what you wnat SDU? Please answer the question. I know it is not very liberal to answer a question.

This Health Care thing is real important to 260 Million Americans. So since you are speaking for the other 50 million who are made up of people who really need care, ILLEGALS, and people who DO NOT WANT it answer the questions liberal.

1. What is the consevative plan?
2. Your supporting government take over of health care?

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Queen (Democratic) - 4 months ago

The idea that the competitive prices of a government health care plan will drive down premiums is an economically one. So, even if the US doesn't go as far as the public health care of Europe, the goal of cheaper health care may be achieved. However, I question whether having a government option will improve the services that are supported by insurance companies. There are two problems that current health care poses: it's too expensive and it doesn't cover everything. Will a government plan be both better? Will it only go halfway?

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wayway2tall 4 months ago

The problem is that it's socialized medicine, and anything social, republicans disapprove of. But seriously, our country is afraid of the word socialism. It worked great for us in the cold war, but our inability to accept Marxist values may end up ruining us economically. While the free market has worked for us in the past, it might be time to start using a little intelligent design in creating our society for the future. The fact of the matter is that our country is quickly spiraling towards bankruptcy, in large part due to the money we spend on medicare, medicaid, and social security. All of these fall under the department of human services which last year spent $737 billion. To make things worse, the baby boomers are quickly approaching retirement, when they become eligible for these benefits and costs will sky rocket. But what if the solution is health care reform? If the government started collecting what's bascially health insurance payments from a significant amount of americans aged 18-50, who need health care at a rate infinitely lower than that of retirees, we might have a shot of avoiding this financial hurdle. However, I think the democrats are timid about health care reform because they know that if there's even a hiccup in the implementation or execution (poor word choice) of the new health system the republicans will go rabid. The problem is that right now everyone is fighting over who should be captain of a sinking ship when we should all just try to bail out as much water as possible.

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way2convey (Independent) - 4 months ago

Response to wayway2tall
The problem is that it's socialized medicine, and anything social, republicans disapprove of. But se … Show full post

Marxist values? Tell me you are not serious! The problem here is not the lack of socialist policy, the problem is we have adopted far to many Marxist policies! When government involves itself in the private sector beyond it's Constitutional authority it leads to nothing more than more intrusion, more loss of freedom and more failure. The government, not free enterprise is responsible for the looming failure of Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. They also stuck their noses in housing market demanding banks give loans to unqualified people. Now our market has collapsed. Give them the dictate over our health care system and they will destroy our freedom as well as our economy.

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wayway2tall 3 months ago

Response to way2convey
Marxist values? Tell me you are not serious! The problem here is not the lack of socialist policy, t … Show full post

But free enterprise IS responsible for the current economic turmoil. A market based society is bound to go into a depression. That's how the market works. It's unavoidable. But if some socialism is used to control the economy, these depressions can be avoided, the tradeoff of course being that market growth is generally curbed.

Medicaid and Social Security are going to fail because we have an ageing population. But now the government is trying to do something to fix the problem. See? The government can involve itself in the private sector as long as people like you don't try to argue against reform simply because they're still afraid of communism. We're the most capitalist nation in the world. A little socialism isn't going to hurt us.

Additionally, the writers of the constitution could never have imagined our industrialized, corporate, global economy. And while the constitution is a fine document for framing our laws and social structure, theres no way that you can argue that the framers would have been against communism. Marx didn't publish the communist manifesto until 1848!

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way2convey (Independent) - 3 months ago

Response to wayway2tall
But free enterprise IS responsible for the current economic turmoil. A market based society is bound … Show full post

It very simple to say free markets have caused our current problems, but the reality is this whole mess started as a result of legislators involving themselves in the market by pressuring banks to make bad loans.

Let me see if I get your point. The government has been managing social security and Medicare since implementation and have seen these programs headed for failure for years. But now, I'm suppose to be secure in the knowledge that the same folks who have been managing the programs into insolvency are now going to be the ones who fix it. And I guess the bonus is they want to do the same with everyone's healthcare. WOW...sounds like a great plan.

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Patriot Watch (Independent) - 3 months ago

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wayway2tall 3 months ago

Response to way2convey
It very simple to say free markets have caused our current problems, but the reality is this whole m … Show full post

You make it sound like the banks didn't want to make those loans. Banks made millions of dollars trading those securities, and the entire country enjoyed its most prolific period of economic growth. That was government at it's best. Now if we could have identified the house of cards that was our economy (and still is) before it all came tumbling down, government may have been able to avoid the crashes that we are experiencing. And if the debt hadn't been run up so much, we would have been able to avoid our current economic situation quite easily. I know, you don't want to hear a liberal blame bush, but I honestly believe that the man was completely asleep at the helm for 8 years. I mean, did he pass any legislation at all that was aimed at fixing our economic situation, which after the market crashes of 9/11 we knew was flimsey at best. I guess he passed the tax rebate... but that hardly seems pitiful in comparision to what the economy needed.

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way2convey (Independent) - 3 months ago

Response to wayway2tall
You make it sound like the banks didn't want to make those loans. Banks made millions of dollars tra … Show full post

Fact is they didn't want to make those loans, otherwise it wouldn't have taken government pressure for them to do it. It not rocket sience to know that when you invest $0.00 into a home, walking away when the interest rates rise is a no brainer. And sure banks made money, but they also knew it would be short lived. Thus, they packaged the bad loans and sold them to Fannie and Freddie and anyone else who would buy them. So, to you, governement at it's best is forcing a business to do things that the business knows are bad. ??
Actually you can bash Bush all you want, I wasn't an avid fan of the "compassionate conservative", but his tax cuts kept this country going after 9/11. You can argue that point, but most of the Bush years saw a very robust economy. Most of Bush's term saw very low unemployment, low interest rates, no inflation and a strong market. But, Bush and the Republican's in Congress blew it with all the spending and not pushing hard for more aggressive oversight on Freddie and Fannie.

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