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MrsPresident (Democratic) - 5 months ago
Reply to amnestymyazz
Someone that faces being jailed for not showing up at work is not the same as someone that loses his … Show full comment
Someone that faces being jailed for not showing up at work is not the same as someone that loses his … Show full comment
hahahahahahahahahaha I think it's hilarious that you have decided to give up discussing this. Or maybe you noticed that when I made my last statement I was done and you can't be outdone. Who knows, who cares. Good luck with fighting for DADT to stay in place.
amnestymyazz 5 months ago
Reply to MrsPresident
You do not give up your rights. No you can't call in sick but you can go to sick call in the morning … Show full comment
You do not give up your rights. No you can't call in sick but you can go to sick call in the morning … Show full comment
Someone that faces being jailed for not showing up at work is not the same as someone that loses his/her job for not showing up at work. Having the remedy of going to the chaplain is not the same as just quitting. The military provides potential remedies. Those hardly rate the same as having the right to arbitrarily do as you please. I would let the other users on this site decide if placing a request through proper channels and someone else having the deciding vote qualifies as a 'right' as you state. Do you get the picture? I know you don't. I'm done discussing this with you. The fact that you don't think you give up your rights in the military shows how blind you are.
amnestymyazz 5 months ago
Reply to MrsPresident
I already answered your scenario about fraternization. Plain and simple it's not allowed. End of sto … Show full comment
I already answered your scenario about fraternization. Plain and simple it's not allowed. End of sto … Show full comment
I asked you "What would you do if that woman made a pass at you, you rebuked her, and then found yourself under her command?". I asked it a couple times, a couple different ways. That scenario is my whole issue with gays inthe military. Frankly I don't care what your answer is. As a civilian I do not wish that type of scenario be something I need to worry is happening in my military. The soldiers have enough to worry about. They don't need to worry about dealing with that type of favoritism.
MrsPresident (Democratic) - 5 months ago
Reply to amnestymyazz
You give up all your rights. You cannot call in sick. You can't quit. You can't change jobs 5 tim … Show full comment
You give up all your rights. You cannot call in sick. You can't quit. You can't change jobs 5 tim … Show full comment
You do not give up your rights. No you can't call in sick but you can go to sick call in the morning and there better be something wrong with you. You can't quit but you can go to the chaplain and tell them you are having a hard time, explain your reasons and they can began the discharge process. You can't change jobs, but you can qualify for an MOS change if you test properly or you make a lat move into another branch of service, You can't just go to a different post but you can marry another military member at the post you want to be at and then put in the request to change, or simply bide your time and get out. You can't go AWOL but you get 30 days of vacation time and you can accumulate it. You can't wear your hair the way you want it, but in any truly professional setting you can't do that either. You where a uniform which is pretty much the same as you do working in a professional setting except in a professional setting you wear a suit and tie to work everyday. In the civilian world you tell your boss to f**k off you will get fired, so you can't do that either. So do you get the picture?
You think there are very many differences? No there aren't many except that people who aren't in the military take a mile when given the inch. Military members only take the inch they are given, no more and no less it's called discipline.
MrsPresident (Democratic) - 5 months ago
Reply to amnestymyazz
I am simply pointing out which comes first. Of course they don't keep people from having social liv … Show full comment
I am simply pointing out which comes first. Of course they don't keep people from having social liv … Show full comment
I already answered your scenario about fraternization. Plain and simple it's not allowed. End of story, it doesn't matter what sex you are nor your sexual orientation. You as a member of the military know the rules and the rules need to be followed. However, no where in the UCMJ is there anything specifically about Homosexuality the only thing that come close to it is US Code Title 10, Subtitle A, Part II, Chapter 47, Sub-chapter 10, Section 925, Article 125 which is about Sodomy and it states: (a) Any person subject to this chapter who engages in unnatural carnal copulation with another person of the same or opposite sex or with an animal is guilty of sodomy. Penetration, however slight, is sufficient to complete the offense. (b) Any person found guilty of sodomy shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
Otherwise it is part of the US code that Congress has written that bars gays from serving in the military what so ever. That particular part of the code: US Code Title 10, Subtitle A, Part II Chapter 37, Section 654 is purely discriminatory. If you read the sections closely you will find that they are encouraging homophobia as well as open and hostile discrimination against gay people. Is this what the US really wants to portray itself as? A direct link to the code is posted below.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode10/usc_sec_10_00000654----000-.html
FrankenFan 5 months ago
Wow, what does being gay or not being have to do with the military anyway? I've heard of people being kicked out because of their personal lives back home when they didn't even talk about it on the job, how is that fair? We lost that one Arabic translator cause he said he was gay, don't we need translators at a time of war?
amnestymyazz 5 months ago
Reply to peabody
If you didn't give up your rights? What rights are actually given up?
If you didn't give up your rights? What rights are actually given up?
Freedom of speech. Freedom to congregate. Due process. Justa few
amnestymyazz 5 months ago
Reply to peabody
If you didn't give up your rights? What rights are actually given up?
If you didn't give up your rights? What rights are actually given up?
Freedom of speech. Freedom to congregate. Due process. Justa few
peabody (Independent) - 5 months ago
Reply to amnestymyazz
If you didn't they would not have the legal authority to get you to do the things you need to do to … Show full comment
If you didn't they would not have the legal authority to get you to do the things you need to do to … Show full comment
If you didn't give up your rights? What rights are actually given up?
amnestymyazz 5 months ago
Reply to MrsPresident
The only right you give up to serve in the military is the right to be stupid and reckless, but ther … Show full comment
The only right you give up to serve in the military is the right to be stupid and reckless, but ther … Show full comment
You give up all your rights. You cannot call in sick. You can't quit. You can't change jobs 5 times a year. You can't just go to a different post. You can't go AWOL. You can't wear your hair like you want. You cannot wear whatever you want. You cannot tell your boss to f***off if you want. Do you get the picture yet?
amnestymyazz 5 months ago
Reply to peabody
Yes. It's a choice to go into the military, not a requirement. When a person joins the military, h … Show full comment
Yes. It's a choice to go into the military, not a requirement. When a person joins the military, h … Show full comment
If you didn't they would not have the legal authority to get you to do the things you need to do to be a soldier. People change their minds when they find out what it is really like. If you didn't give up your right to leave, alot of people would.
amnestymyazz 5 months ago
Reply to MrsPresident
I was talking about what you were referencing nothing more nothing less. While you may have to be re … Show full comment
I was talking about what you were referencing nothing more nothing less. While you may have to be re … Show full comment
I am simply pointing out which comes first. Of course they don't keep people from having social lives. That does not mean they need to accomodate every lifestyle choice that come down the road. You are missing the bigger picture, not me. It is the the fact that the militaries main objective is the defense of this country. It works around the fact that soldiers are husbands, wifes, sons and daughters. While in the military you are a soldier first. I ask you one more time. What about the scenario I laid out for you regarding fraternization?
peabody (Independent) - 5 months ago
Reply to amnestymyazz
Are you serious?
Are you serious?
Yes.
It's a choice to go into the military, not a requirement. When a person joins the military, he exercises his right to do all the military things they do. They know what they're getting into, and know they'll contribute to keeping their rights. And they're usually better off for having gained the discipline. And personal agendas like being gay shouldn't confuse the issue.
MrsPresident (Democratic) - 5 months ago
Reply to peabody
Why do you have to give up your rights to be in the military?
Why do you have to give up your rights to be in the military?
The only right you give up to serve in the military is the right to be stupid and reckless, but there are plenty of men and women at Ft. Belvior, Quantico, Ft. Meyer, Ft. McNair, Andrews AFB, Bolling AFB, Ft. Meade, The Naval Baracks, 8th and I, and The Navy Yard who are still stupid and reckless and it's not hurting them too much.
And yes to Amnesty I know plenty of people at all of those posts.
MrsPresident (Democratic) - 5 months ago
Reply to amnestymyazz
If you were in the military then you know that, while on post, you are subject to being searched at … Show full comment
If you were in the military then you know that, while on post, you are subject to being searched at … Show full comment
Fraternization with the opposite sex is illegal so why would it be legal for the same sex? That answer was a given. Just because you are subject to search while on post doesn't mean the same rules apply while off post. most people E-5 and above without dependents live off post here in VA, why? Cause they don't want to deal with the politics. Same reason why most people get married quick and in a hurry. You do have a right to privacy within your own home, doesn't matter if you are in the military or not. And if you live on base in housing the MP's still have the Constitution to abide by, they cannot just come into your home without probable cause. What you are talking about are E-4's and below across the board. NCO's don't have to deal with that crap, Officers even less. Yes I've seen people denied their BAH because of dependents being where they were told not to be. That is on you because you did not follow the rules. If your dependents stayed where you put them in the first place then you would still get your BAH because you still have to support them under the UCMJ even more so under the Soldiers, Sailors Relief Act.
amnestymyazz 5 months ago
Reply to peabody
Why do you have to give up your rights to be in the military?
Why do you have to give up your rights to be in the military?
Are you serious?
amnestymyazz 5 months ago
Reply to MrsPresident
Like I said before there is a huge difference between professionalism and just being stupid. If you … Show full comment
Like I said before there is a huge difference between professionalism and just being stupid. If you … Show full comment
If you were in the military then you know that, while on post, you are subject to being searched at any time. Where is your right to privacy? You don't have one. Just because people are allowed to get married, date and socialize on off hours does not mean it is their right. When you enlist you are the property of the US Government. Hence the term 'GI'- General Issue. When they want you, they take you. If they want to search your room, they do it. Of course there are married persons in the military. Have you ever seen someone denied BAQ because their dependents are not authorized to be with them? If you ever worked in the S-3 you would. How about your rights then? If all these things were rights then the military would not have to authorize them. I noticed you have declined to comment on my question regarding fraternization with the same sex and the potential effect is has on you? You keep citing how things are overlooked with the UCMJ. That still doesn't mean it should be made legal.
MrsPresident (Democratic) - 5 months ago
Reply to amnestymyazz
You do not have rights in the military. You do not have the RIGHT to privacy. Look it up. You are … Show full comment
You do not have rights in the military. You do not have the RIGHT to privacy. Look it up. You are … Show full comment
I was talking about what you were referencing nothing more nothing less. While you may have to be ready for combat at all times you are still allowed a life, if that were not the case then no military member should be allowed to have any type of relationship what so ever, nor should they be allowed to have dependents. Those are just distractions, however, the military is not like that. You are picking and choosing what you respond to. There is a bigger picture of the military that has to do with more than just the small microscope that you are putting it under. If you served you are sure sounding institutionalized at this point in our debate. Please don't, I was never a fan of the gung ho hoorah marines. (not saying you were one)
peabody (Independent) - 5 months ago
Reply to amnestymyazz
You do not have rights in the military. You do not have the RIGHT to privacy. Look it up. You are … Show full comment
You do not have rights in the military. You do not have the RIGHT to privacy. Look it up. You are … Show full comment
Why do you have to give up your rights to be in the military?
amnestymyazz 5 months ago
Reply to MrsPresident
Like I said before there is a huge difference between professionalism and just being stupid. If you … Show full comment
Like I said before there is a huge difference between professionalism and just being stupid. If you … Show full comment
You do not have rights in the military. You do not have the RIGHT to privacy. Look it up. You are totally naive when you state it's not about combat conditions. EVERYTHING about the military is about being prepared for combat. That is the whole point.
MrsPresident (Democratic) - 5 months ago
Reply to amnestymyazz
The military is not civilian life-even off duty. It is not a democracy. You keep posting responses … Show full comment
The military is not civilian life-even off duty. It is not a democracy. You keep posting responses … Show full comment
Like I said before there is a huge difference between professionalism and just being stupid. If you worked at a Fortune 500 company and totally disrespected the rules such as fraternization or doing things at work you were not supposed to do you would get fired, same goes for the military. And please don't act like just because I'm a civilian I don't know anything about the military at all. I spent my whole childhood being an Army dependent, then went into the Navy, then became a Marine wife. I know just as much about the UCMJ as you do and I'm familiar with the lifestyle since I'm 27 years strong now.
It's not about people doing whatever they want whenever they want it's about having some right to privacy. You want to claim that straight people in the military don't have that right? Bullshit! Their privacy is respected until it affects them as an Airman, a Soldier, a Marine, or a Sailor, and even then that's only talking about job performance. Adultery is a violation of the UCMJ and subject to an Article 15 proceeding but how many people get away with it with a slap on the wrist? Or how many people avoid the Article 15 hearing all together by going to their commanding officer when they know they are going to get caught and confess they have a problem? Oh please, give me a break. It's not just about combat conditions I'm not focusing totally on that, I'm talking about military life in general. So please don't try to dismiss the concerns of this liberal because I know a thing or two about what I'm talking about .
hepsy 5 months ago
Reply to amnestymyazz
Absolutely. That means repeal don't ask don't tell. And ban gays from serving.
Absolutely. That means repeal don't ask don't tell. And ban gays from serving.
Yes, I d say ban discrimination from the military along with individuals openly homosexual.
In case anyone s confused with my first sentence, it may help to know I use the word discrimination to include acts of favoritism and making exceptions, as in turbans and beards, or whatever else is not standard uniform or conduct.
amnestymyazz 5 months ago
Reply to hepsy
Military restrictions weren t designed to annoy. They exist for reason. All the whining that it's un … Show full comment
Military restrictions weren t designed to annoy. They exist for reason. All the whining that it's un … Show full comment
Absolutely. That means repeal don't ask don't tell. And ban gays from serving.
hepsy 5 months ago
Military restrictions weren t designed to annoy. They exist for reason. All the whining that it's unfair, difficult, or discriminatory is nothing short of immaturity. Military training wipes away the whine. It brings discipline. Troops who have their lovers by their sides can not be counted to forfeit emotion of their passion for the welfare of their fellow troops.
Several have offered reasons why openly gay individuals are not a good idea in a military setting. Military life is not civilian life and to try to make it so, is but a poor excuse in ignorance.
Many boys and girls have gone into one military service or another. Training causes them to grow up, and emerge as men and women.
Should don't ask don't tell be repealed?
If the commander in chief is not a Politically Correct wuss, then I'd say yes.
amnestymyazz 5 months ago
Reply to MrsPresident
Most of the men and women who are gay in the military aren't the flamboyant queens or butches that y … Show full comment
Most of the men and women who are gay in the military aren't the flamboyant queens or butches that y … Show full comment
The military is not civilian life-even off duty. It is not a democracy. You keep posting responses like it is up to the masses what policies are enacted. It is not up to the soldiers what policies they will follow. It is not up to the US people. You keep talking about people hitting on you. You may find it perfectly tolerable if a woman made a pass at you while you were in the service. What would you do if that woman made a pass at you, you rebuked her, and then found yourself under her command? What if you fooled around with her girlfriend and she found out about it? How about the military tries to eliminate the possibility of that happening in a combat zone? Nah. Lets let everyone do whatever they want becasue it makes everyone feel better about themselves. Screw security and safety. It's more important to be politically correct.
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