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bco2rgr (Republican) - 1 year ago
Its amazing that the main stream media isn't covering the fact that there are reports coming in now that the school was actually used to fire rockets and store weapons. Not to mention that the soldiers who fired upon the school were fired upon first from that location.
Also the newest report on the Cynthia McKinney debacle is that the boat she was on actually rammed an Israeli missile boat.
hepsy 1 year ago
Reply to meangene
so. if Israel returns fire its a war crime, but if someone shoots at them its justified? Isn' that t … Show full comment
so. if Israel returns fire its a war crime, but if someone shoots at them its justified? Isn' that t … Show full comment
Of course, to the first question. Blind hatred needs no reason.
The history of Islam, from its beginning days, has been destruction, even of their own.
tidus2004 (Republican) - 1 year ago
Reply to meangene
well, if you let rockets be fired from your school, don't be surprised if someone returns fire.
well, if you let rockets be fired from your school, don't be surprised if someone returns fire.
I agree.
bco2rgr (Republican) - 1 year ago
Reply to scot
A nation is defined as: "a large body of people, associated with a particular territory, tha … Show full comment
A nation is defined as: "a large body of people, associated with a particular territory, tha … Show full comment
Yes and who were the first to make it home under your definition for a nation? That is a rhetorical question in case you don't get it.
scot 1 year ago
Reply to meangene
so just when were the palestinians a nation , im just curious.?
so just when were the palestinians a nation , im just curious.?
A nation is defined as:
"a large body of people, associated with a particular territory, that is sufficiently conscious of its unity to seek or to possess a government peculiarly its own"
And
"an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family, often speaking the same language or cognate languages."
Palestine has fit those for a while.
Now, when was Palestine as state may be your real question.
A modern state was declared following British Rule, it recognized by over 100 other nations.
Prior to that they were governed as a state under various Persian, Ottomon, and Arab Empires in a federated style system.
meangene (Republican) - 1 year ago
so. if Israel returns fire its a war crime, but if someone shoots at them its justified? Isn' that the standard Islamic response?
meangene (Republican) - 1 year ago
Reply to scot
The region was referred to by the Romans, the Ottomans, Persians, Egyptians and even the Brits. The … Show full comment
The region was referred to by the Romans, the Ottomans, Persians, Egyptians and even the Brits. The … Show full comment
so just when were the palestinians a nation , im just curious.?
meangene (Republican) - 1 year ago
well, if you let rockets be fired from your school, don't be surprised if someone returns fire.
bco2rgr (Republican) - 1 year ago
Reply to scot
The region was referred to by the Romans, the Ottomans, Persians, Egyptians and even the Brits. The … Show full comment
The region was referred to by the Romans, the Ottomans, Persians, Egyptians and even the Brits. The … Show full comment
Again it wasn't handed over to them. They purchased it. If the people who owned the land sold it to them then what is the beef?
scot 1 year ago
Reply to bco2rgr
Scott please tell me exactly when in time there was a country call Palestine. I would love to know … Show full comment
Scott please tell me exactly when in time there was a country call Palestine. I would love to know … Show full comment
The region was referred to by the Romans, the Ottomans, Persians, Egyptians and even the Brits. The State of Palestine was even once declared and recognized by over 100 countries post British rule. The people where know as Palestinians, they were a distinct identifiable people group. They have been as much a nation as most other Middle Easter and European groups.
When I said They took the country I was referring to the UN handing it over to them, poor choice of words. How would you feel if your home was all of a sudden handed over to another nation without your consent by a third party?
The Jews were not taking back what was theirs, both groups lived in the region, sometimes mixed and many times not. They can both have a state in the region. Israel can help the situation by looking at working towards this.
'Zionists' I was not using as a derogatory term, I was using it as a title - a title they gave themselves when they were active as a specified group. The Zionist movement was an Israeli nationalist movement.
Patriot Watch (Independent) - 1 year ago
Reply to politikjoe
I agree. Israel cannot simply do whatever it wants without consequences. There is no way to legi … Show full comment
I agree. Israel cannot simply do whatever it wants without consequences. There is no way to legi … Show full comment
Israel cannot simply do whatever it wants without consequences. There is no way to legitimize such attacks. They have no right to target schools, hospitals, or other similar places.
silly
Patriot Watch (Independent) - 1 year ago
Reply to bco2rgr
Wow Scott you are either ignorant or just looking for ways to twist what I say into an argument. … Show full comment
Wow Scott you are either ignorant or just looking for ways to twist what I say into an argument. … Show full comment
and if the Gaza people (Palestine) don't like it than take care of your back yards. your good at killing so get rid of the rats in your sewer and progress might be able to be made
Patriot Watch (Independent) - 1 year ago
Reply to bco2rgr
Please Scott don't be a fool. While yes this is a tragic thing to happen, Hamas, Hezbollah and many … Show full comment
Please Scott don't be a fool. While yes this is a tragic thing to happen, Hamas, Hezbollah and many … Show full comment
I love how the over 100 Palestinians that have been shot dead and that doesn't count the wounded from gun shots to the thigh. Thats not in the liberal conversation.
bco2rgr (Republican) - 1 year ago
Reply to scot
Israel has bent over backwards for Gaza? I would not go that far. that have made a few concessions o … Show full comment
Israel has bent over backwards for Gaza? I would not go that far. that have made a few concessions o … Show full comment
Scott please tell me exactly when in time there was a country call Palestine. I would love to know this as I am fairly astute in this history and I don't recall there ever being a country or kingdom called Palestine.
The Romans called the area Palestine as a kick to the teeth of the Jews.
Taking away their country???? Please the Jews bought that land back from Muslims for ten times the amount fertile land was going for. To say they stole or took away the country is preposterous. As a matter of fact the Jewish people that bought the land back from Muslims paid about 1100 dollars an acre for the ground when fertile black soil land was going for about 110 and acre in the USA at the time.
One could actually argue that the Jewish people were just taking back what was rightfully theirs to begin with. Oh wait that's right the so called Palestinians claim to be shirt tail relatives of the Canaanites right with absolutely no proof of such claim.
One could argue the history of this land all day long and by all historical facts it would generally end up on the side of the Jewish people.
The overall end game is that until the radicals in Hamas, Hezbollah and other such groups are dealt with there will never be an agreed peace or state lines that are acceptable. The Jewish people learned this and have been for the last 20+ years advocating a peaceful solution to this but the other side has to sit at the table and actually agree to the terms. Egypt and Jordan have learned that if they abide by the terms set up in the agreement that Israel will do nothing to provoke them.
Zionist you say that like it is a derogatory term do you know what it actually means?
scot 1 year ago
Reply to politikjoe
I agree. Israel cannot simply do whatever it wants without consequences. There is no way to legi … Show full comment
I agree. Israel cannot simply do whatever it wants without consequences. There is no way to legi … Show full comment
Strong statement, "No self-respecting nation would do so, and no other nation would ever get away with doing so."
I agree, most any other nation would not likely get away with it. However, "No self-respecting nation would do so" is a strong and relative statement... all depends on one's view of self-respect I suppose.
scot 1 year ago
Reply to bco2rgr
See you don't like your words being twisted do you? So what would you like them to do Scott? Stan … Show full comment
See you don't like your words being twisted do you? So what would you like them to do Scott? Stan … Show full comment
Israel has bent over backwards for Gaza? I would not go that far. that have made a few concessions over time, but not overly willingly.
What should they do? Maybe return to their originally defined borders and work to build a Palestinian state instead of working against it. This would be a big move in the right direction. And a very strong start.
You state:
"There is no seeing eye to eye. Hamas has publicly stated they will not stop until Jews and Israel are wiped off the map."
The Zionist once said the same thing of Palestinians and Muslims.... It was not to long ago that the Zionist were the terrorist, they were what Hamas is today. It has simply divulged into tit for tat. Perhaps changes in policy towards Palestine would help those views. It helped the Zionist when they were given an Israeli an state... they changed their rhetoric.
Also, "What has Israel done to Gaza to provoke their rocket attacks?" - How about taking away their country, their land, pushing through with Israeli settlers, unilaterally expanding their borders? Keep in mind as well that the Zionist movement is still fresh in their memories.
It is true, for the UN... in this situation they have been useless, more or less, in fact the UN over time has been more problematic in the region. The Israel/Palestine conflict is most definitely not a UN success story as it currently sits.
bco2rgr (Republican) - 1 year ago
Reply to scot
Defend their territory - yes. Invade another territory because the guys in power there who were demo … Show full comment
Defend their territory - yes. Invade another territory because the guys in power there who were demo … Show full comment
See you don't like your words being twisted do you?
So what would you like them to do Scott? Stand around and rattle sabers like the UN does hoping that will scare Hamas into sensibility? Israel has bent over backwards to allow Gaza to live its own life. The rest of the world has poured money into the country in an attempt to get their economy going. Hell when the Israeli's left Gaza in the early part of this century they forcibly removed their own people in an attempt to satisfy these radicals. Oh and let's not mention the numerous green houses that the Jewish settlers left behind for the Palestinians to use and grow food. You know what happened to them? Within a week they were burnt to the ground by these folks because they had Jewish cooties on them.
There is no seeing eye to eye. Hamas has publicly stated they will not stop until Jews and Israel are wiped off the map. What has Israel done to Gaza to provoke their rocket attacks?
So what should Israel do? Only be allowed to launch rockets back into Gaza indiscriminately? Is that how you would equal out the playing field?
I understand that there have been civilian deaths and I personally don't like them but also understand that it is going to happen when diplomacy does not work.
Oh and speaking of the UN. How convenient is it for them that they are speaking out about this retaliation by Israel but for the years of rocket attacks nothing, nada, ziltch.
politikjoe 1 year ago
Reply to scot
Defend their territory - yes. Invade another territory because the guys in power there who were demo … Show full comment
Defend their territory - yes. Invade another territory because the guys in power there who were demo … Show full comment
I agree.
Israel cannot simply do whatever it wants without consequences. There is no way to legitimize such attacks. They have no right to target schools, hospitals, or other similar places.
No self-respecting nation would do so, and no other nation would ever get away with doing so.
scot 1 year ago
Reply to bco2rgr
Wow Scott you are either ignorant or just looking for ways to twist what I say into an argument. … Show full comment
Wow Scott you are either ignorant or just looking for ways to twist what I say into an argument. … Show full comment
Defend their territory - yes. Invade another territory because the guys in power there who were democratically elected do not see eye to eye with you - no.
I have nothing against Jews, or Israelis or Israel in general. Stop twisting my words.
I support innocent civilian lives, you know... the kids getting murdered, the ones loosing their mothers and fathers and so on.
Being Palestinian is not a crime, nor is living in Gaza or being Muslim. However, that is how Israel treats it. And that is what is inappropriate.
Israeli loss of life due to those attacks is so much lower than the Palestinian loss, even when you remove the Hamas militants who were killed. Innocent lives lost is far heavier on the Palestinian side.
bco2rgr (Republican) - 1 year ago
Reply to scot
If Hamas had a cell in London could Israel act unilaterally and take them out? Based on your log … Show full comment
If Hamas had a cell in London could Israel act unilaterally and take them out? Based on your log … Show full comment
Wow Scott you are either ignorant or just looking for ways to twist what I say into an argument.
Okay boys and girls today I will be bringing out the crayons and colored paper to draw pictures for those who don't understand.
I am talking about the Israel and Gaza confrontation and only this Scott, quit being so literal you sound like a jackass. Israel has the right to defend their country against those who attack them just like any other country in the world has and would be fully justified if is wasn't Israel and the dreaded Jewish folks that you seem to not care for.
Almost 7000 rocket attacks have come from GAZA. not England, Not Italy and Not China. Israel has launched it's retaliatory attacks in Gaza and no where else.
This is why they have the right to attack Hamas in GAZA.
bco2rgr (Republican) - 1 year ago
Reply to MissGradenko
This is a big question. The UN was conceived as having its own military forces but that never cam … Show full comment
This is a big question. The UN was conceived as having its own military forces but that never cam … Show full comment
This is true but generally the only time anything is accomplished by "UN Forces" is when the US is spearheading it. Otherwise all you see are blue helmets standing around with the thumbs stuck in their butts. Most of the time The UN Forces are ordered not to take any action regardless of what is going on. Big example Somalia. When the waring factions would come in and steal the food that the UN was providing for the starving folks, The UN Forces to include the US would do nothing at all.
People were being murdered by these warlords over food and the UN says do nothing? What kind of idiotic lunacy is that?
scot 1 year ago
Reply to bco2rgr
By saying they have a right to do this I guess I have to draw out on a piece of paper for you what I … Show full comment
By saying they have a right to do this I guess I have to draw out on a piece of paper for you what I … Show full comment
If Hamas had a cell in London could Israel act unilaterally and take them out?
Based on your logic of 'wherever they may be' I guess you would say yes.
Think about it. You just said Israel can do whatever it wants to whomever it wants if it can somehow show a Hamas connection.
That is ludicrous.
bco2rgr (Republican) - 1 year ago
Reply to scot
I left nothing out, I simply was discussing another topic entirely. Israel a right to do this?? … Show full comment
I left nothing out, I simply was discussing another topic entirely. Israel a right to do this?? … Show full comment
By saying they have a right to do this I guess I have to draw out on a piece of paper for you what I mean. I mean they have a right to attack Hamas wherever they may be. The school incident is a true tragedy and I can say with certainty that the Israeli Army did not intentionally target the school.
Obviously attempting to deal with the issue via diplomatic venues has failed. It seems whenever Israel concedes anything to there folks they see it as an open invitation to increase their attacks.
MissGradenko 1 year ago
Reply to bco2rgr
And who might that be Unity? The US is the only reason the UN has any teeth to begin with. If we d … Show full comment
And who might that be Unity? The US is the only reason the UN has any teeth to begin with. If we d … Show full comment
This is a big question.
The UN was conceived as having its own military forces but that never came to pass, so it has effectively "contracted-out" that job to nations like the US, for example in the Gulf War.
But the US has contributed only a miniscule proportion of the UN's extensive peacekeeping troops.
Simply saying make love not war comes to mind, but it's much more complicated than that. We might just be better, all things considered, at (regrettably necessary) combat than (undeniably necessary) diplomacy.
scot 1 year ago
Reply to bco2rgr
No but you conveniently left it out, while I don't deny that they are terrorist groups. Israel is c … Show full comment
No but you conveniently left it out, while I don't deny that they are terrorist groups. Israel is c … Show full comment
I left nothing out, I simply was discussing another topic entirely.
Israel a right to do this?? To murder school children? You would not think that was true if the tables were turned and it was your kid in that school.
Russia/Chechnya issues were not big media plays because they are Russia/Chechnya issues. Not big on the political scale to most people, sadly.
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