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"It ain't [America] no more, OK?"
"School Grounds have very DIFFERENT FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS than anywhere else."
- 25 Comments
- Add a comment
amnestymyazz 3 months ago
So what. It's obvious that this police officer didn't understand the constitution, many people don't … Show full comment
Why should it take a lawsuit or a court order to excercise your rights? What you are saying is alot like what insurance companies do. Deny a valid claim figuring if you are REALLY serious you will take it to court. You suggest the same logic. The police ignored the guys consitutional rights. If he really believes his rights were infringed, then he'll go to court. Saying there is legal remedy does not justify having your rights taken away.
ironhead (Libertarian) - 3 months ago
What? Sweden is socialist and it's related to the economic system of Germany, America is capitalist … Show full comment
The economy of the United States is far from being a free market economy - the polar opposite of complete state control, communism. However, fascist economics involves a high degree of state control as well. Socialist economies can vary in form. Sweden and the United States have a number of things in common, economically speaking. However, so does the United States and Nazi Germany, economically speaking. Don't fool yourself into thinking that the United States is a free market economy; it most certainly is not.
wayway2tall 3 months ago
Not Spain under Franco??? I made a distinguishing comment about fascism and democratic socialism, … Show full comment
What? Sweden is socialist and it's related to the economic system of Germany, America is capitalist and it's related to the economic system of germany? Socialism isn't the opposite of capitalism (that would be marxist communism) but there far enough apart where I'm confused as to what you're trying to say.
ironhead (Libertarian) - 3 months ago
No way. Fascism is certainly driven by an authoritative central government. But it also requires a c … Show full comment
Not Spain under Franco???
I made a distinguishing comment about fascism and democratic socialism, however, they are most certainly cousins in terms of violations of individual rights, especially property rights. There is a continuum here, Nazi Germany would obviously be the sharpest expression of fascism. Democratic socialist Sweden is not fascist, but their economic system (as is the economic system of the United States) is a cousin of the economic system of Nazi Germany - one of the most striking features are violations of property rights. Again, there is a continuum.
wayway2tall 3 months ago
I see police violations of individual rights as concomitant to fascism (the more mild beginnings of … Show full comment
No way. Fascism is certainly driven by an authoritative central government. But it also requires a corporate driven economy i.e. capitalism. Socialism also has a strong central government, but most socialist societies don't have strong police forces (Scandinavian countries, France)
The only two fascist countries the world has ever known are Italy and Germany circa WWII. Both were right wing capitalistic countries. While you could make an argument that Stalin's USSR was facist, it wasn't, just authoritarian.
ironhead (Libertarian) - 3 months ago
Doesn t matter whether rights have been violated for two hundred years or two days, or who s been aw … Show full comment
I see police violations of individual rights as concomitant to fascism (the more mild beginnings of a police state). This is what my use of "waking up and smelling the fascism" refers to.
I don't know why that is confusing to you, or why it might sound ambiguous. Obama's health plans are socialist in design. Fascism, to me, is a form of socialism, but with more emphasis on glorifying the state and aggressive foreign policy. They're cousins in my mind, because they use the state to such large degrees and both subvert individual rights.
ironhead (Libertarian) - 3 months ago
Holy crap. Amen sister. The enemy are the ones sitting in their gold cushioned elitist chairs, th … Show full comment
I appreciate the compliment, I know how much these issues mean to you.
Believe me, I am very pissed off by the liberal hypocrisy (primarily in the mainstream press) when it comes to calling anti-socialist protesters "crazy" and "marginal." However, it also really strikes me as hypocritical when conservative media, like FOX, used the same epithets about antiwar protesters during the Bush administration, but now are supportive of the anti-socialist movement and their demonstrations. I'd like to see more honesty from BOTH sides.
The Tea Party movement, which is part of the anti-socialist movement, is an interesting development. What I wonder about, is whether most of these folks see the connection between the warfare state (foreign policy) and bloated socialist government and loss of liberty at home (domestic policy).
Patriot Watch (Independent) - 3 months ago
Doesn t matter whether rights have been violated for two hundred years or two days, or who s been aw … Show full comment
Holy crap. Amen sister.
The enemy are the ones sitting in their gold cushioned elitist chairs, the ones with the power to tell us what changes they are making against US.
Well said. As soon as EVERYONE gets on this page the quicker our country can heal. I do not recall Iron Heads comments from back in the day although I was here. My respect for him is large and my last comment wa to pull him closer to the cause.
From all that Ironhead believes in HE more than anyone on this site should be fired up and blasting away at most of what is being done. Some of the current comments are indirect talk of the subject at hand.
I am a fan and student of Ironheds. Like I use to be of Scott before he beccame afraid? It appears as if the record is skipping
Patriot Watch (Independent) - 3 months ago
PA - I'm against the quashing of dissent by both conservatives and liberals, not just by one or t … Show full comment
agreed again but this video shows * local community organizers vs. oppostion
What you were seing was local police not knowing how to handle large groups of pissed off liberals.
Patriot Watch (Independent) - 3 months ago
I'm sorry, you're mistaken. The police ARE the state. The concept of the state is not reserved for … Show full comment
Check brother. I get it. Just making the distinction between state and local. Two totally different thing. Local, county and state police have their own dealings here in Illinois.
This video is of local or keystone cop. Just what ypou said after I commented
I'd also add that you're talking about "progressive fascism", meaning trampling of dissent by those on the Left - I agree that this is very real.
However, the video here displays how the STATE (in this case the police) tramples on individual rights. Is it so hard for you to recognize? You seem to have the same problem that your Leftist "enemies" do.
Were on the same page
hepsy 3 months ago
Interesting how conservatives are waking up and smelling the fascism these days. Anyone who atten … Show full comment
Doesn t matter whether rights have been violated for two hundred years or two days, or who s been aware the longest. Whether you hate conservatives, neutrals, liberals, snakes or monkeys, your objection to state-sanctioned denial of speech is stronger when added to mine. Those who protest what I support have as much right to their expression as I, or you, so the only reason to be divided in keeping our right to speak freely is, petty animosity preferred over freedom of speech.
I went to a peace rally, once. It was puzzling. Those protesting were verbally hostile. They were not silenced, except the ones who assaulted the police, the protesters actions first. Their signs declared, "make love not war." Their actions said otherwise. A personal experience hardly qualifies as a general norm, especially a single one. From your tone, I would guess your experience was different?
Funny, our military who actually do something for peace, are said to be the aggressors while the supposed peace lovers do the aggressing. I still don t like war, but the façade of peace is no better.
I reread some of my earliest comments, from when I was new to this site and an Internet community newbie, as this is where I first interacted with people online. My remarks are rather consistent in ascribing responsibility in the attack against our Constitution to previous administrations. The shoe remains on the same foot and I suspect that is the case for many you include in your comment about conservatives waking up.
I don t mind telling you that the reason I avoid flinging words such as fascism, marxism or liberalism is, I really don't understand their distinctive nuances. I don't always understand the shades of conservatism, either, for definitions are in the mind of the hearer, not necessarily the same as the speaker's. Which brings me to ask if you would, please, clarify your opening paragraph, without the political jargon?
Regardless of one's politics, the enemy isn't conservatives or fascists, or whatever labels you choose to ascribe. The enemy isn't those who enforce what they're told to do, as demonstrated in the video. The enemy are the ones sitting in their gold cushioned elitist chairs, the ones with the power to tell us what changes they are making against US.
wayway2tall 3 months ago
and Obama would drop the suit like he did against the black panthers which you did not see a problem … Show full comment
I didn't, because it was two guys being stupid. They wouldn't have intimidated me or made me change my mind about who I was gonna vote for. But if you think that they made a substantial impact on the election, go ahead and ruin their lives.
I think that the guy with the sign should have told the police officer to p**s off. But instead he got a camera and started taping a guy who was probably just trying to do what his boss told him. I think that if there's any violation of our civil rights it's dealt with in Morse v. Frederick.
ironhead (Libertarian) - 3 months ago
Like to see a similiar video of people protesting Bush. If you can find one Id be super impressed. D … Show full comment
PA -
I'm against the quashing of dissent by both conservatives and liberals, not just by one or the other. Like I said, I found this at antiwar rallies and it seems to be happening now, too.
I really think of it more in terms of the state vs. whoever is dissenting, not left vs. right.
ironhead (Libertarian) - 3 months ago
This was authority at a smaller level. This is a local township making this call. A Obama small grou … Show full comment
I'm sorry, you're mistaken. The police ARE the state. The concept of the state is not reserved for the Federal government, though they are usually the worst perpetrators. State governments and local governments are still governments. The police enforce the law - they are the state.
Patriot Watch (Independent) - 3 months ago
I'd also add that you're talking about "progressive fascism", meaning trampling of dissent … Show full comment
This was authority at a smaller level. This is a local township making this call. A Obama small group making law. Community Organizers making law.
this has nothing to do with STATE>
Patriot Watch (Independent) - 3 months ago
It's incredible that you make such excellent points and then swiftly devolve into myopia. I, too, h … Show full comment
agree with the statement in full. A new law should be struck for allowing troops on the ground.
Patriot Watch (Independent) - 3 months ago
Interesting how conservatives are waking up and smelling the fascism these days. Anyone who atten … Show full comment
Like to see a similiar video of people protesting Bush. If you can find one Id be super impressed. Dont think you will score thou.
Ive heard this tired argument before. has some but little merit.
I can post video after video of whacked out liberals breaking , burning and swearing for lesser causes. I can show you pic after pic of Bush looking like Hitler, a pig, a goat, the devil and any other word you want to throw at me. But it was ok back than because it was liberals and the media against America.
Now it's socialist and media against America and this has taken place to this degree before. Not while I have been alive.
Our first amendment rights are under attack like never before and I hoped that you would respond as such.
You are our Patriotic American Hero on this site and we need you to proceed as such/.
Patriot Watch (Independent) - 3 months ago
So what. It's obvious that this police officer didn't understand the constitution, many people don't … Show full comment
and Obama would drop the suit like he did against the black panthers which you did not see a problem with. Should I cut and paste your comments?
ironhead (Libertarian) - 3 months ago
These days? Whatever, I was detecting progressive fascism a ways back. Attending an anti-war rall … Show full comment
I'd also add that you're talking about "progressive fascism", meaning trampling of dissent by those on the Left - I agree that this is very real.
However, the video here displays how the STATE (in this case the police) tramples on individual rights. Is it so hard for you to recognize? You seem to have the same problem that your Leftist "enemies" do.
wayway2tall 3 months ago
These days? Whatever, I was detecting progressive fascism a ways back. Attending an anti-war rall … Show full comment
Activists always want to "squelch" opposing viewpoints. The exact same goes for conservative protestors that sing the national anthem when they get heckled.
By the way, the constitution actually says that only congress has the right to declare war, so even though liberals were messing up your prime time viewing pleasure, they had a legititmate point.
I honestly don't care if you think the country is moving too fast, you've given me absolutely no reason why the country should wait for you to accept the subtle and in the grand scheme very minor changes that have been enacted and proposed (for god's sake, this isn't the lenin revolution.)
ironhead (Libertarian) - 3 months ago
These days? Whatever, I was detecting progressive fascism a ways back. Attending an anti-war rall … Show full comment
It's incredible that you make such excellent points and then swiftly devolve into myopia. I, too, have seen the quashing of dissent (from the antiwar movement) at antiwar demonstrations. I always tried to engage those of the other side in civil debate, and it was usually returned (I've spoken with a number of the "protest warrior" guys at antiwar demonstrations). And the Left in general, is quick to force its opinions on those who diverge from conventional thinking - look how Ron Paul is spoken of by Noam Chomsky (maddening!).
However, your brazen ignorance of the Constitution is stifling, considering your purported adherence to it. Congress is clearly authorized to declare war, and the executive was never intended (save for Hamilton) to have the authority it does in modern times. The President does NOT have the authority to wage war as he/she would see fit, as you seem to imply. Such an idea is extremely dangerous. Men like Patrick Henry feared this, and much later, Republicans such as Robert A. Taft knew this as well.
Teikiatsu (Independent) - 3 months ago
Interesting how conservatives are waking up and smelling the fascism these days. Anyone who atten … Show full comment
These days? Whatever, I was detecting progressive fascism a ways back.
Attending an anti-war rally would have been the perfect place to detect it, people who felt the right to voice their opinions and squelch anyone else's. People who can't read the constitution and understand that military action and international affairs are within the bounds of the Presiden't authority. You don't have to like it, but you still had the right to assemble and state greivances. No one called you evil, hateful, or a nazi. We let you have your time in the spotlight.
What we are seeing now is very different, liberals don't realize they are moving to fast and lacking subtlety, trying to ram things through. People stating their opinions are being treated like dirt. The sleeping giant has been awakened, I just pray it stays civil.
ironhead (Libertarian) - 3 months ago
Interesting how conservatives are waking up and smelling the fascism these days.
Anyone who attended an anti-war protest during the last eight years could have told you as much. And I say so, because I have attended many of these.
But honestly, this subversion of free speech and individual rights stretches all the way back into the earliest corners of American History. It just feels a little different when it happens to you, or feels like you could have realistically experienced it when seeing it (like in the video).
wayway2tall 3 months ago
So what. It's obvious that this police officer didn't understand the constitution, many people don't. If the guy who posted this video would have sued and gone to the supreme court, his rights would have been protected. That's the way this country works. What really sucks, is when the courts don't uphold your right to free speech. Ever heard of Morse v. Frederick? http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/06/25/free.speech/
hepsy 3 months ago
I wish this was a fake video.
Never thought I d wish that free speech wasn't denied in USA. I guess I took it for granted, that I'd always be free to express. The changes seem to be accelerating!
If enough of us speak out to our Congressmen, perhaps there can be an effect. ?
One thing Georgie did right- When those larger than life Deviled pics of him were paraded before him, and those Hitlered ones and others, Georgie said it was their right, to exercise their freedom of speech. Obama isn't so good about that.
SPREAD THE WORD